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Post by willywetshirt on Aug 8, 2012 11:02:47 GMT 1
We have a problem.
At the rear of our house, we have various outbuildings and a driveway which leads a short way to the large expanse of grass that is the main garden,discounting a large veg plot to one side.
This area was originally very uneven and scrappy so we scraped the whole of it with a mini digger to get it fairly level. Over the top of this we spread by hand, some 12 tonnes of calcaire, 2 to 3 inches thick.
The Calcaire consists of stones about 20mm at their largest along with smaller stuff down to dust. This was raked out but not compacted, relying on the rain which we were advised would wash in the dust and set like cement.
In the main, it has done this, aided by the coming and going of cars. However, and here comes the crunch, we get weeds, that unless pounced upon quickly [and we haven't managed it yet] they establish themselves very quickly. Recently, prior to some UK friends visiting, it took nearly a week to dig out every weed, only to have new ones within 10 days. This time we have used a very powerful weed killer, but we think it will require frequent applications with one having to suffer the appearance of weeds in various stages of dying.
I was considering:
1. Whether an additional application of sand would help to fill in the gaps of the stone to form more of a 'caked' surface.
2. Whether to hire a compacter and give it a go with that with or without the application of the sand.
3. I have looked in vain, for calcaire that is the size of pea gravel, as I felt that that would at least give a smoother appearance as well as providing a weed discouraging surface.
Has anyone got a solution please.
Thanks in advance
WWS
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Post by Ali on Aug 8, 2012 13:12:14 GMT 1
Arrrrr and ooooops.
When we laid down pebbles on an expanse (car parking thats never used) we put a membrane underneath to stop said weeds. Its worked a treat. Occasional one but nothing to speak of.
Guess it's too late or not possible for you to membrane now even if you plan to stone on top again.
I would think that even with 1,2 and 3 you'll still get weeds - they're hardly little blighters.
There was a weed killer available, Sodium chlorate, which is a non-selective kill all, but I seem to remember it being withdrawn; its nasty stuff. Pathclear was based on it I'm almost sure. Its a very toxic substance but certainly sterlilised to weeds for a good long time.
French councils tend to use a form of blow torch and burn them off.
Hope somebody else with more clue can help. x
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Post by wibble on Aug 8, 2012 13:43:41 GMT 1
Best way as Ali has noted is to put down a textile geo-membrane below your sub-base and granular infill - weeds are very hardy and will break through most things  application of various weed killers or salt will always be an ongoing matter to keep on top of weed problem. If you can my suggestion would be to find a friendly mini digger driver scrape up and keep clean what you can - put a sand bed down to lay your geo-membrane onto and reinstate your sub-base after firstly giving it a good clean of any vegetable/root matter with a high strength weed killer and add some new clean material. Calcaire - I assume this is a limestone mix of small sized granular hardcore material (20mm down) ? P.S. Just re-read, sorry but 2-3inch (50-75mm) thickness of granular isn't near enough sub-base thickness to keep out weeds especially without a geo-membrane  as a min sub-base (depends on CBR) but you should look at 150mm (6 inch)  |
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Post by willywetshirt on Aug 8, 2012 19:54:58 GMT 1
We used a membrane in the front garden and as such know that its not cheap. It was this factor that stopped me using out the back cos its a very big area! However grateful for the advice, although in my heart of hearts, I thought I should have gone down the membrane route. I remember the backbreaking work of putting it down, add to this rehiring a minidigger and you will understand my wanting to find an alternative "cure-all". I seem to remember in a forum over here, that someone put down the argile/clay mix that they took out of their attic floor and never got a weed! [If anyone has a similar experience with argile, please let me know as we have two huge attics that need the argile taken out then boarded over] Meantime, will have to bite the bullet and use chemicals. |
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Post by wibble on Aug 8, 2012 20:18:52 GMT 1
Use of clay or any impervious strata as a sub-base material is not recommended the possible reason that use of clay as a sub-base is that is was well compacted when laid and perhaps formed a solid mass and possibly contained a level of contaminants whereby this leached into the soil and combined with compaction formed a crust through which weeds could not penetrate Geo-textile membranes do seem cheaper in UK than France - I have a similar project ahead of me as to the front of my house I am looking to lay slabs to form a patio and to provide a geo-membrane which I will be bringing over from the UK ........... check out via google Tensar it is a trade name for a geo-membrane UK supplier |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2012 21:42:19 GMT 1
There was a weed killer available, Sodium chlorate, which is a non-selective kill all, but I seem to remember it being withdrawn; its nasty stuff. Pathclear was based on it I'm almost sure. Its a very toxic substance but certainly sterlilised to weeds for a good long time. Ahhh, Sodium Chlorate, I used to have loads of fun with that stuff when I was a kid, can't say what we did on here or I would get arrested  |
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Post by Ali on Aug 8, 2012 21:52:27 GMT 1
There was a weed killer available, Sodium chlorate, which is a non-selective kill all, but I seem to remember it being withdrawn; its nasty stuff. Pathclear was based on it I'm almost sure. Its a very toxic substance but certainly sterlilised to weeds for a good long time. Ahhh, Sodium Chlorate, I used to have loads of fun with that stuff when I was a kid, can't say what we did on here or I would get arrested Oh sugar! So did we |
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Post by Madame Moorhen on Aug 9, 2012 13:32:05 GMT 1
I have as many weeds where I have geotextile than where I've got no geotextile - and - you can't ruddy pull them out cos they get their roots all entangled in it.  I use glyphosate on the gravel and just go round regularly using it all through the growing season. Wouldn't be able to get into the house if I didn't, as all my plants self seed in the gravel. It doesn't kill the moss though so it still looks a bleedy mess. |
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Post by <-Rinky-Dink-> on Aug 9, 2012 22:50:22 GMT 1
Yep. MM ... that's the problem we have in the front garden where we
covered the ground before putting the gravel down. The weeds still come up through it and as you say ... not always easy to pull out.
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Post by wibble on Aug 10, 2012 9:15:47 GMT 1
I can certainly understand your frustration if having had a geo-membrane installed in all good faith hoping it would work and stop/reduce weed growth it fails to do so and in an epic way. Geo-membranes may not work for various reasons: incorrect grade used, any rips or tears not repaired, insufficient laps on installation, general installation and sub-base materials not correct. Also weeds may have a very shallow root growth and simply have germinated in shallow soils above the geotextile |
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as a min sub-base (depends on CBR) but you should look at 150mm (6 inch) 
