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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2012 20:58:48 GMT 1
BC, you take the mickey too much!
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Post by lib on Sept 23, 2012 22:02:41 GMT 1
My dear God fearing friend, there is truth in what one says ref ref the PH of the soil, liming will make the soil more alkaline. This will of course encourage grass type plants as well a brassicas etc. Many weeds though thrive on acidic soil, sorrel, dock, nettles, creeping buttercup, etc so lowering the PH to below 7 is worthwhile. Please note I am not a gardener so no comments if i am simplistic.
The 20mm stone is delivered as clean 20mm not aggregated and I use it only for hard standing not pedestrian use, the only footfall is to and from the vehicles. Short distance. Twenty mill stone plays the devil with stiletto heels.
ps carry on BC
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Post by willywetshirt on Sept 24, 2012 1:40:40 GMT 1
Sorry folks have been relying on Rinky to keep me up to date on stuff. HUGE HUGE thank you to all your suggestions esp Lib and Anon, I can see a lot of work has gone into helping me out.
For you guys that have used a Wacker, does its action apart from compacting, break the limestone into smaller bits? My supplier has said he can only offer 20/30mm and 10/15mm (the latter I looked at and think he uses a different rule to mine) Yet round about here, I notice the council use a much finer stuff, more 15mm to dust.
(I will collar our local bloke and ask him where he gets it - you see him all the time until you want to ask him a question, then he hibernates!)
My thinking is going along the lines of increasing the top layer thickness as well as getting a more uniform surface and if the wacker does break up the stone as well, then this would be a bonus.
Have noted that there will always be wind-borne seeds but the ultimate aim is minimal maintenance, so can live with them.
So be glad to hear more, and again thanks very much for your info to date.
WWS
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 8:18:12 GMT 1
Looks like lib is your man on this one, WWW....
Limestone is relatively soft, so it will break up under a wacker plate, but not necessarily fragment into smaller bits consistently, but you will produce 'fines' which will help to bind the surface....
Still think that the quality of the surface is more important than its weed-suppressing properties.... I've combined in the past 20mm aggregate (I use the word 'aggregate' as a general word for a single-size graded material, lib) with a top-dressing of 5-10mm.
Perhaps the most significant detail for me was to wack everything down one layer at a time, and to wack until you drop, on each layer, then pick yourself up and wack it again ...!
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Post by Ali on Sept 24, 2012 8:58:18 GMT 1
You can commonly get 'Tout Venant' from any builders yard which is the base mix of fine grey sand, through to gravel chips which whacks down to a solid base.
20mm might not be ideal for stilettos but its better than chippings, in my view, which get into tyre treads. A nice rounded 20mm will scratch your heels less lib.
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Post by lib on Sept 24, 2012 9:32:26 GMT 1
WWW, it looks like you need to check out what you can get from your suppliers. I am lucky in what I can purchase, when I say 20mm clean that is what I get, 20mm give or take 2mm and washed.
The 1/8th inch to dust is the key. This is what Annon refers to as fines. When I mix mortar for my place the amount of sand I use is minimal, the mix is mainly Limestone dust, (like very gritty sand but not to be thought of as true lime mortar as I want a solid finish not a 'moveable' one). Therefore it follows that it is possible as you say that a layer of eighth to dust will 'set' hard'. This is dependent upon several thin layers being put down and compacted by rolling or hand 'thumping' if you have a good log. Using a whacker plate on this, laid upon earth will only result in 'mud pies' dependent upon the amount of moisture in the soil. What you want is for the 'mix' to leach into the soil and bind it. Of course you would not use this technique for a track that is going to be used regularly by vehicles with very high axle loads, tractors with laden trailers, you would put down proper base of deep hard core, but this is fine for cars and 4 wheel lorries.
I use a whacker plate for larger stone as i want the vibrations to compact the stone into the smallest volume. This is for where the fill is very deep. You may see on the picture i posted that the rear car park is 5 feet deep of infill at the wall, note the heavy copings used to stabilise the dry stone wall with downwards pressure yet the wall is allowing water to pass through. Lots of whacking needed to firm up the infill. Notice the 'fines' ie dust being used to bind. Then a unwhacked layer of 20mm. I do not use 20mm where the vehicles will be turning on a tight radius as this just results in the stone 'banking' up and being flirted up, even when restrained by kerbs. So 20mm for drive on drive off parking area, unless you want to keep racking back level. My turning circle is topped with 5mm to 10mm limestone, relatively thin layer. Much easier to walk on too. I will try to post some pictures of what my turning circle and front parking area looks like after several years wear, if and when the rain stops. Using a whacker plate will not really crush the stone unless the under surface is harder than the stone. Hope this helps a bit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2012 12:32:23 GMT 1
Yes lib, mention of the moisture content of fines, and of the sub-base brings to mind my experience with 'hoggin', a mixture of clay and gravel used here in Hampshire mainly for woodland footpaths...
Put it down when everything is low in moisture (summer) and it goes down like concrete. Put it down any other time and it goes down like yuk.... Wacking and when to wack is another key quality consideration...
Phew WWW! There's a lot for you to think about! But it's good to chew the cud....
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