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Post by JohnP on Dec 8, 2012 8:50:41 GMT 1
Everyone hates paying tax. Anyone who employs an accountant does so normally because their tax affairs are complicated and part of the accountants remit is to make sure you don't pay more tax than you need to. So what exactly have Starbucks done wrong?............Answer, NOTHING unless it is illegal to outsmart HMRC. Therefore Osborne, stop trying to deflect blame for your own and your party's incompetence in closing loopholes in the law which allow clever accountants to legally avoid their client's paying tax. Lets put the blame clearly where it lies. Perhaps when Cameron has finished bowing to the demands of the Gay marriage minority, he might turn his attention to tightening up the law on tax avoidance and make everyone pay their fair share. i won't hold my breath!
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Post by Ali on Dec 8, 2012 9:35:42 GMT 1
OOo I love it when you post something that I disagree with JP coz I know you won't bite my head off In my humble view Starbucks, and all others who choose to refrain, should pay corporation tax on profits made in the UK. Not doing so leaves all of the UKs own equivalent businesses without a level playing field.
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Post by littlemouse on Dec 8, 2012 9:44:19 GMT 1
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Post by lib on Dec 8, 2012 9:45:32 GMT 1
I do not mind a good rant, but I must say that it seems now to have a political bias rather than a genuine point of view. Suppose it makes a change from royalty.
No mention of the evasion of tax in france both personal and corporate. We forget do we of things like the Elf-Aquatine behaviour etc etc.
ps I my humble opinion the majority of large corporates are 'bent'.
I have worked for two of them until i realised i was party to the total self interest of the companys. Politics are the sideshow to be manipulated or bought .....
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Post by JohnP on Dec 8, 2012 10:09:45 GMT 1
OOo I love it when you post something that I disagree with JP coz I know you won't bite my head off In my humble view Starbucks, and all others who choose to refrain, should pay corporation tax on profits made in the UK. Not doing so leaves all of the UKs own equivalent businesses without a level playing field. I absolutely agree Ali, all companies should pay their fair share of tax and to achieve that situation the law must be tightened up. the only people who can do this is the government by closing the loop holes in the current legislation not by trying to appeal to the morals of big business because like MP's they don't have any. Starbuck's, Google, Amazon and all the other companies who are not paying their fair share of tax are doing so because they employ clever accountants who are legally doing what they are paid to do. It is up to the chancellor to stop crying in his beer and sort it out, he is the only one who has the power to change the laws so he should stop trying to deflect the blame and sort out the mess which is on his doorstep.
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Post by wibble on Dec 8, 2012 10:25:12 GMT 1
I'm on the fence with this because they have done nothing illegal (immoral perhaps) but not illegal, those tax loopholes and others have been there for many years and come to light in these recession times under a conservative government - the same and other tax laws were being abused under previous labour governments - so blame is firmly at the door of government be that labour or conservative for making these tax laws - Gordon Brown during his time as Chancellor has a lot more to answer for than any else and Tony B"liar" knows when to leaving a sinking ship.
My dilemma is - if you were in that position (as say Jimmy Carr and others) would you employ a team of accountants to minimise your tax ? I certainly would.
Who hasn't put an extra receipt through their books or offset their personal lap-top as a business expense ?? its not millions for one, but on a total UK scale it perhaps compares to Starbucks
Although the big corporates may not pay as much tax as we would all like to see happen what they do undertake is to employ many thousands of people either directly or indirectly that do pay a considerable sum in taxes and NI.
O.k so lets play the guilt trip on Starbucks who have now agreed to pay £10 mill ........ this is peanuts to them when compared to their advertising budget and do you really think this won't be clawed back in some other way ??
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Post by littlemouse on Dec 8, 2012 11:39:50 GMT 1
Starbucks are saying we will pay 10 millon which surely means they are dictating the amount of tax they will pay which can't be right.
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Post by <-Rinky-Dink-> on Dec 8, 2012 15:27:11 GMT 1
OOo I love it when you post something that I disagree with JP coz I know you won't bite my head off In my humble view Starbucks, and all others who choose to refrain, should pay corporation tax on profits made in the UK. Not doing so leaves all of the UKs own equivalent businesses without a level playing field. Well said, ali!
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Post by lib on Dec 8, 2012 15:37:27 GMT 1
littlemouse has posted a link that covers an awful lot of comments I was going to make, well worth a read.
A friends son works for one of the big four accountancy firms and he admits that virtually all of their 'tax products ' are now illegal because of government legislation. They now have a new range of products developed after further study and thought of current legislation, world wide of course.
One of the best lessons, working for an international firm, was being taught 'The Law of Unintended Consequences', how to look for them and how to profit by the resulting consequences.
PS Starbucks are taking the pi** and deciding what sort of handout may satisfy the demands of the public.
pps It may be of interest to look how Starbucks treats it 'version' of Fair Trade, one of the best PR stunts I have grudgingly admired.
Government legislation provides lots of them.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2012 12:11:23 GMT 1
My dear well-read and informed lib,
I don't think that loopholes are unintended and that the consequences are unforeseen.....
Rather that loopholes are designed into legislation so that various lobby groups, eg Big Business, can profit from them.... It's under-hand skulduggery like any other...
I'm with Wibble in recognising that the gains from Multi-national inward investment are greater than any loss in tax revenue on profits. It's just another political stroke to flag up evil Big Business now....
I wonder if those who choose to see 'unfairness' in it all ever consider where their own material wealth comes from, if it's not a succesful consumer society, which means a succesful business sector, cos I for one would advocate lying, cheating and doing whatever it takes if the greater good is served....
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