Sandy
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Posts: 371
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Post by Sandy on Mar 13, 2010 18:42:54 GMT 1
Blame the politicians for allowing this to happen. But the politicians do not sit there and DEMAND that children watch these sort of films, nor do they stipulate that playing violent games on X-boxes are compulsory. I put the blame fair and square on the parents for allowing their children access to violent videos etc. OK, if these were poverty-stricken 'inner-city' families, then the chances of one, much less both parents working is remote. Therefore the excuse of parents being unable to watch over the kids actions does not hold water. They should have even MORE spare time for their families upbringing than those who work.
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Post by lif on Mar 13, 2010 18:51:56 GMT 1
Blame the politicians for allowing this to happen. But the politicians do not sit there and DEMAND that children watch these sort of films, nor do they stipulate that playing violent games on X-boxes are compulsory. I put the blame fair and square on the parents for allowing their children access to violent videos etc. OK, if these were poverty-stricken 'inner-city' families, then the chances of one, much less both parents working is remote. Therefore the excuse of parents being unable to watch over the kids actions does not hold water. They should have even MORE spare time for their families upbringing than those who work. The politicians, who will spend millions on advertising during the coming election, knowing the power of suggestion, should DEMAND that children can’t watch these sort of films. It should be a criminal offence to do so.
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Post by wibble on Mar 13, 2010 20:00:26 GMT 1
self respect, good manners, knowing right from wrong and discipline are all available free of charge and cost nothing ................ you cannot blame poverty for the failure of the two individuals concerned
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Post by lif on Mar 13, 2010 20:27:53 GMT 1
self respect, good manners, knowing right from wrong and discipline are all available free of charge and cost nothing ................ you cannot blame poverty for the failure of the two individuals concerned Unless there is nobody to set an example to them? Christ I’m sounding like a liberal lefty!
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Post by jackie on Mar 13, 2010 21:13:27 GMT 1
self respect, good manners, knowing right from wrong and discipline are all available free of charge and cost nothing ................ you cannot blame poverty for the failure of the two individuals concerned Unless there is nobody to set an example to them? Christ I’m sounding like a liberal lefty! I think that's exactly the nux of the problem Lif. But then again I am a liberal lefty!
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Sandy
Love it here
Posts: 371
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Post by Sandy on Mar 13, 2010 21:31:26 GMT 1
self respect, good manners, knowing right from wrong and discipline are all available free of charge and cost nothing ................ you cannot blame poverty for the failure of the two individuals concerned Unless there is nobody to set an example to them? That's all very well but nowadays you are not even permitted to 'ground' a misbehaving child much less discipline them any other way ( I'm talking about those problem children already in foster-care now). So, how do you 'discipline them, Are we supposed to use the councils way of taking them on expensive holidays to BRIBE them to be good? Foster parents that I know now take the easy option. They accept damage to their home as inevitable and fostering as a job? They attempt no discipline whatsover to avoid potential conflicts, and work on the principle that the council pay well for the childs lodging and will also pay for damage that child has done. When they finish fostering they will then restore their home to a good standard. I have mixed feelings about this ......
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Post by Cheeky Chops on Mar 13, 2010 22:24:49 GMT 1
No point in blaming anyone. There is no one reason that youngsters end up doing despicable things. They have no empathy because no-one has shown them any. Their parents can't parent as they have not been parented in a functional way. It is a vicious cycle of the extreme kind. Families like this need early intervention if these children are to be stopped from perpetuating these behaviours. Another line of thought though is that for these types of crimes to be committed you need two individuals of a similar background. On their own, these children would be unlikely to have committed these acts. It is a complex discussion and the only way I can make a decent point is to pinch the saying "There but for the grace of God go I". Given the same situations and families etc., then I dare say I would have ended up with the same personality traits and behaviours spoken about in this discussion. We are made and not born with particular traits. An old teacher of one of the 'two' spoke about them on The Wright Stuff. An ignorant person who should not be in a position of authority where troubled young people are concerned. Anyone working in this area should be coming from a person centred point.
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Post by Cheeky Chops on Mar 13, 2010 22:31:13 GMT 1
Unless there is nobody to set an example to them? That's all very well but nowadays you are not even permitted to 'ground' a misbehaving child much less discipline them any other way ( I'm talking about those problem children already in foster-care now). So, how do you 'discipline them, Are we supposed to use the councils way of taking them on expensive holidays to BRIBE them to be good? Foster parents that I know now take the easy option. They accept damage to their home as inevitable and fostering as a job? They attempt no discipline whatsover to avoid potential conflicts, and work on the principle that the council pay well for the childs lodging and will also pay for damage that child has done. When they finish fostering they will then restore their home to a good standard. I have mixed feelings about this ...... When I fostered (difficult to place young people); the best form of correction I found was that I wasn't best pleased with them. Even better that the other young people in the household were fed up with them. Sometimes it appears that there is no change in these very damaged young people. There may not be an immediate change but you can be sure that lessons are being learned and changes in behaviour and belief systems (self-esteem etc.) will occur at some point in their lives. May be years and years down the line. If a negative cycle is broken for just one family then it is all worthwhile.
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Post by blu on Mar 14, 2010 15:40:14 GMT 1
In my opinion they knew what they were doing was wrong and so yes should be prosecuted.
If they had a bad hard life themselves that cannot detract from what they did.
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Post by BartyB on Mar 14, 2010 16:48:36 GMT 1
In my opinion they knew what they were doing was wrong and so yes should be prosecuted. If they had a bad hard life themselves that cannot detract from what they did. Lets move ever so slightly sideways (because tho' I obviously remeber the case and broadly the scandal sheets version I don't remebre the details) If you take the scenario that the family adults are violent to one another and their children and that they take the French view of animal contraception (bucket after the event) and that they are vocally racist/classist/homophobic and may well drink fairly enthusiastically and allow the kids to run wild................................. How should a 10yearold from this background know that it's more than "a bit naughty" to kill another child? For heavens sake I had a friend who confessed that one day her little brother had been annoying her and her sister, he was warned "if you do that again we'l break your arm" he did and they did! and this was a good middle class family, father a teacher and mother a local councilor!!! What chance do kids from unemployed, uneducated parents on a sink estate have?
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